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Let’s face it, endometriosis is…well…complicated.
In simple terms, it is a disease where tissue similar to the endometrial lining in your uterus grows outside of your uterus. This causes symptoms like pain, fatigue, digestive distress, and so much more.
But those who suffer from endometriosis is so much more than that.
There are so many layers to endo. In this episode, we will unpack all of it.
We will dive into what endometriosis is really, both from a western perspective and from a more holistic perspective.
We will also bust some common myths around endo.
This is a wonderful episode to listen to to gain an understanding from a deeper level and can also be a great episode to share with a friend or family member who just doesn’t quite get what you’re going through.
Enjoy!
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Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. This may not be the best fit for you and your personal situation. It shall not be construed as medical advice. The information and education provided here is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. Always check with your own physician or medical professional before trying or implementing any information read here.
Full transcription:
What is endometriosis really?
All right, welcome back, my friend. I am so excited because it is finally actually starting to feel like fall around here. I live in Southern California, so the seasons are kind of hard to come by around here.
Now, I grew up in Colorado, so I… I’m used to the four seasons, the changes, and all of that, and even though I’ve been in California for probably 15 years now, I still find myself every year waiting for it to actually cool down and become fall, and every year I find myself kind of disappointed about that.
But it’s actually kind of cool and overcast today. It might rain. I’m actually able to wear a little cozy long sleeve shirt. And so it’s starting to feel like fall. So I’m really excited about that. Because then that means I get to start to transition into some of the fall produce and the fall recipes that I love that are kind of seasonal.
And so I’m really excited to dive into all of that. Okay, so for today’s episode, we’re going to really go back to the very, very basics of endometriosis: what is endometriosis, what are the symptoms, how do you even receive a diagnosis, how do you know the difference between normal period pain, quote unquote, because period pain really is not normal, that’s a whole other discussion, and endometriosis, And how do you know when to get support and where to get it from?
Busting some endo myths
We’re also going to be busting some of the common myths around endometriosis that I hear floating around all the time.
So, for today, what we’re going to do is we’re going to start out by looking at endometriosis kind of from the more traditional medical standpoint, and then we’re going to dive into some of the more holistic stuff, digging deeper, looking at root causes and things like that, because that’s the part that I love.
I really love to talk about more than anything. Now, this can be a wonderful episode to share with a friend or a loved one who maybe doesn’t really understand endometriosis and what you’re going through, or even to share with somebody who might be struggling with endometriosis symptoms or maybe isn’t sure yet if they have endometriosis, but they’re really struggling with period pain and symptoms that could be related, and they just don’t know where to turn next.
This episode can be a wonderful place to start. I started out by doing a quick Google search, which You all have probably done a hundred times already, but I wanted to just tie that into today’s episode as we talk about some of the deeper layer stuff, just so that we all kind of know the starting point where we’re all coming from.
What is endometriosis according to the internet
So this is from my Google search. One of the first results that came up was an article written by the Mayo Clinic. Which I will link to in the show notes. And as I clicked on it, the answer to the question, “What is endometriosis?” was this:
“Endometriosis is an often painful disorder in which tissue, similar to the tissue that normally grows inside of your uterus, the endometrium, grows outside of your uterus.
Endometriosis most commonly involves your ovaries, fallopian tubes, and the tissue lining your pelvis. Rarely endometrial like tissue may be found beyond the area where pelvic organs are located. With endometriosis, the endometrial like tissue, acts as endometrial tissue would, it thickens, breaks down and bleeds with each menstrual cycle.
But because this tissue has no way to exit your body, it becomes trapped. When endometriosis involves the ovaries, cysts called endometriomas may form. Surrounding tissue can become irritated, eventually developing scar tissue and adhesions, which are bands of fibrous tissue that can cause pelvic tissues and organs to stick together.
Endometriosis can cause pain, sometimes severe, especially during menstrual periods. Fertility problems also may develop. Fortunately, effective treatments are available. Which I kind of had to giggle a little bit at that when you then scroll down to what the effective treatments are. But that’s something we’re going to touch base on in a moment.”
So that was all the description right from the Mayo Clinic, word for word. Those are not my words. Those are the words right from that website that I’ll link to in the show notes. But I just wanted to share that with you all, so you can all kind of understand from a medical standpoint, what endometriosis is, what kind of the conventional understanding of endometriosis is, so that as we dive deeper, you can have that baseline to come from.
What are the symptoms of endometriosis?
Common symptoms of endometriosis can range from period pain, pain during or after intercourse, pain with urination, pain with bowel movements, heavy or irregular periods, bowel symptoms like diarrhea or constipation, fatigue, infertility, and plenty more, of course. Now, in the medical world, endometriosis is typically treated in a few different ways.
How is endometriosis treated?
The first one, which I think many of us have either experienced or been offered at some point in time is medications. So that can be things like birth control, other hormone blocking medications. It’s important to know here that medications like this we’re told that they help to rebalance your hormones.
That’s kind of the common conversation around birth control in particular. Oh, it balances out your hormones and it regulates your cycles. The truth to that is that It actually stops your natural hormone production. So the synthetic hormones that are within birth control block the receptor sites where your natural hormones would usually settle in, and so it slows down or stops the natural production of hormones in your body.
So that means that if you’re having a period while you’re on this medication, because some medications completely shut things down to where you don’t even have a period, if you’re on a type of birth control or medication where you do still have what you’re told is a period, what it actually is is a withdrawal bleed.
It’s not even a true period because you can’t have a true period without having The natural hormones. So that’s something that I think is important to know. Of course, that’s not me saying, don’t go on these medications because that is a choice to be made between you and a licensed and credentialed physician.
Informed consent
But I do think that it’s important to know these things so that you can go into these decisions well informed, right? Informed consent. I’m all about that. I have a lot to say about that. And I know just coming back to my own story. Thank you. I’ve told a little bit of my story here and there, maybe one day in an episode I’ll, I’ll really dive in and kind of go beginning to end, but I was put on birth control when I was about 20 years old.
I was struggling with period pain even back then and some other symptoms and when I went to my doctor, the solution they gave me was go on birth control, which I’d heard that time and time again. I knew other people, friends, and family members who had gone on birth control for similar reasons, and it just seemed like what you do around that age.
So I didn’t really think much about it. I just agreed to it. I went on birth control, and my symptoms did improve, as often happens when you go on these type of medications. But then what ended up happening in the long run is that when I got to be, I believe, about 27, 28 years old, my husband and I got married and decided we wanted to start a family, so I went off of the birth control in preparation for that, and all of a sudden, you know, All of my symptoms came back with a vengeance, and then some.
What happened when coming off birth control
There were new symptoms that I had never experienced before. I was in such an intense amount of pain, it was just not something that I could really live with. And so that’s when I ended up going back to seek more help. more support, see if there’s anything else I could do. I still had doctors at that point in time offering me birth control, even though the story I was telling them was that I had, A, just gotten off birth control, and B, was actually actively trying to have a family, so birth control usually isn’t super helpful with that.
Anyway, that’s my story with that, and I know I’ve heard from so many people who have had very similar stories. Because what happens a lot of times with those medications is that it dampens down symptoms while you’re on it, which can be a good thing and, you know, may be necessary for some people. But then as soon as you go off, what happens is your body is in a place where now it has to start to restart that natural hormone production.
What might be missing when on medications?
Things may still be out of balance if you haven’t addressed the underlying root causes. And then at the same time, the other piece that a lot of people don’t tell you about these medications is that they also… cause a lot of nutrient deficiencies. There’s a lot of nutrient deficiencies that are associated with medications.
And if you’re suddenly going off these medications and you’re not supporting your nutrient status, it can end up with you feeling just worse than ever before. And that’s what a lot of people unfortunately run into.
So anyway, I wanted to just share what the common treatments are in the Western medical world, but also give you all of the information kind of from both sides so that you can have a full understanding as you go into these choices for yourself.
What is endometriosis: surgery edition
The other option that a lot of people are given within the medical world is various types of surgery. Now, I had surgery myself a little over a year ago. My surgery was a laparoscopic excision surgery, which is considered to be the gold standard for endometriosis.
So it was something that I really debated on and actually even had a couple of doctors advise me against that surgery before I found a doctor who was on the same page with me and wanted to move forward.
Because there is some debate on its effect on fertility and things like that, but I also had to live with myself on a day to day basis and even though I was doing a lot of this root cause type support, I was working a lot on my nutrition and my gut health and all the things that I work on within my practice, I also had a large endometrioma on my right ovary.
That was kind of the Particular problem spot for me and when they did surgery pulled it out end up being about an 8 centimeter endometrioma and sure there’s some studies on shrinking endometriomas and things like that, but sometimes it can also be helpful just to go in and physically remove it. And they removed a lot of other disease in my body anyway.
So for me. I kind of felt like it’s a fresh start. We removed the disease from my body. We removed the endometrial lesions. So now as I continue to dig in and work on my own health, the goal is to slow down or even stop the progression of that so I don’t have to go in and have many, many repeat surgeries, as is something I hear from many other people.
Types of surgery for endometriosis
There are a couple other surgeries that are offered in the medical world. One of those is ablation surgery, which is very different from excision surgery. Ablation surgery is when they go in and rather than kind of dig out the endometrial lesions from their root, they kind of just burn it off.
Now, I am not a surgical expert, so if you’re looking at a full in depth description of the differences between these surgeries, I highly recommend going and talking to a surgeon who can talk you through that.
This is more just to educate you and give you a general understanding of what these surgeries are. And then the third option that a lot of people are given surgically for endometriosis is a hysterectomy.
Now this is another one that I have a lot to say about. A lot of people are offered a hysterectomy and basically being told, okay, if you remove your uterus and some, sometimes the ovaries, so there’s two types of hysterectomies.
Full hysterectomy vs. partial hysterectomy
There’s a full hysterectomy that removes everything, the uterus. and the ovaries. And there’s also a partial hysterectomy, which removes the uterus but leaves the ovaries behind, which can be a better bet, especially for younger women, because the hormones are produced in your ovaries and immediately shutting off hormone production by removing your ovaries can have a lot of side effects.
So some doctors will recommend that they leave the ovaries behind if possible. The thing that is important to know, again, informed consent when it comes to a hysterectomy, is that the actual disease of endometriosis lies outside of your uterus.
So, if you’re trying to resolve the problem by removing your uterus, again, it doesn’t really address the problem.
Sure you’re not, you’re not going to have periods anymore because you no longer have a uterus. I can’t tell you how many women I’ve talked to who had a hysterectomy thinking that it was going to solve everything and then ended up coming back to me saying, Hey, I had the surgery done. I removed an organ from my body and now I’m still in pain and now I have these new symptoms cropping up.
Considerations for a hysterectomy
So again, not saying do it or don’t do it. That’s something that you’ll want to discuss with a surgeon. informed consent. I know I’m going to say that over and over again. You have to consider all of the sides of it. I know sometimes when you’re just in a lot of pain, you’re desperate to the point where you start to think, I just want to stop having periods.
I don’t want to have a uterus anymore. I don’t want to deal with this. But there are side effects and long term, you know, permanent consequences to that as well, especially if you’re within childbearing years and you still want to have a family.
Obviously, having a hysterectomy will absolutely render you infertile and unable to have children because you no longer have a womb.
So that’s something to consider too if you’re still in that phase of life where you’d like to have a family in the future. So those are really the main ways that endometriosis is treated within the medical world, just so that if you’re going to meet with a doctor, you have an idea of what they might recommend for you.
You can start to make choices from a position of, of strength, of knowing what this means for your body and how it might impact your future.
What is endometriosis really: busting common myths
All right, I’d also like to talk about some of the common myths about endometriosis.
I hear these things floating around the internet all the time, or even in comments that I hear people make just in day to day conversation, especially with people who really don’t know anything about endometriosis, have never experienced it, maybe don’t have anybody in their immediate world who has it.
Endometriosis is “just a painful period”
And one of those common myths is that endometriosis is just a painful period, especially with the word just in there. Because when you have experienced endometriosis and all its glory, like I have, and I know so many of you out there have, you know that just a painful period doesn’t begin to describe what endometriosis is.
When we’re talking painful period, just speaking again from my own experience, I literally had days, for several days at a time when I was on my period, that I physically could not stand up straight. Like, I was just hunched over, hands on my knees, you know, practically crawling around my house, sometimes actually crawling around my house.
I remember I had an issue where I couldn’t get myself up the stairs in part because lifting up my leg to put it on the stairs was painful because it would engage my abdominal muscles and also because, again, I couldn’t physically stand up straight. So I would literally crawl up the stairs when I needed to get to my bedroom.
Thankfully, that’s no longer the case. I’ve done a lot of work on addressing the root cause in my body and also did have an excision surgery last year, which really was helpful as well. But I do remember the very dramatic effects of being on my period, not to mention all of the other things that came along with it.
What is endometriosis: the parts no one talks about
The intense pain that came with bowel movements, the frequency of bowel movements. I was spending Way too much time in the bathroom when I was on my period. And then all the stuff in between. A lot of people experience pain with ovulation, or may just experience pain all throughout their cycle and never really have a break from that.
A lot of people also experience fatigue that can be really crippling. This is something that I experienced myself and didn’t really have a name to put to it for a long time. I just thought I was tired. Which I guess I was, but again, I was in my 20s. You should not be exhausted after being at work for three hours when you’re in your 20s.
That’s something that’s just not normal. And again, something that’s not really talked about. So for me personally, I didn’t even realize that I had a fatigue until all of a sudden through the work that I was doing, that fatigue started to lift and I realized, oh my gosh, I. So it’s a lot more than a painful period.
What is endometriosis: just a reproductive disorder?
The other thing that I hear a lot is that endometriosis is a reproductive disorder. And it seems like it would be, because it is heavily associated with symptoms happening during menstruation. It is heavily associated with women, although, fun fact, men can actually get endometriosis as well, even though it’s not very common.
But really, endometriosis is a full body disease. It affects every system in your body, every part of your body. And so, if you’re addressing endometriosis purely as a reproductive disorder, that can actually… cause you to run into some struggles because you’re not addressing the other, you know, 90 percent of your body that also is impacted and will impact your reproductive system.
It’s like that two way street. And we’ll talk more about endometriosis being a full body disease in a little bit, but I just wanted to touch base on that now because I do hear a lot about how it’s a reproductive disorder or it’s a disease of the uterus and all these things that are just Not only not really true, but just a very, very small piece of the picture.
Is endometriosis caused by hormones?
The other common myth that I hear a lot of is that it’s caused by hormones, particularly estrogen. Now, there is truth to the fact that estrogen can feed into endometriosis, but it doesn’t mean that it’s caused… by estrogen. And we’re going to also talk about that in a little bit. We’re going to dig a little more into the hormone piece of things.
Hormones absolutely are a factor when it comes to endometriosis. When I work with my one on one clients, we absolutely work on rebalancing hormones. But important note is that hormones are never the root cause. Hormone imbalance is a symptom. So it goes right along with the pain and fatigue and all the other symptoms that we experience.
Hormone imbalance is a symptom. And the last myth, which we already talked about a little bit when we were talking about hysterectomies, is that stopping your periods stops endometriosis growth. And that is just not true.
Whether you’re not having a period because you’re on medication or you’re not having a period because you physically had your uterus removed from your body in a hysterectomy, that is not necessarily going to stop the growth of endometriosis.
Again, I hear stories day after day, time and again, about women who have these things done, either procedures done or have been on medications and all of a sudden find out that, lo and behold, endometriosis continued to progress anyway because they’re not addressing the underlying root cause. That’s why I’m all about that.
You have to actually figure out what’s going on in your body, why things are out of balance, so that you can find a pathway towards slowing down or stopping the progression of endometriosis. And that’s really at the heart of the work that I do with my clients.
What is endometriosis from a holistic perspective
Alright, now here’s the part that I really want to talk about today, which is digging into what endometriosis really is from a holistic perspective, taking that full body approach that I was talking about.
And the first important thing to know is that endometriosis is a full body disease. It does impact the function of every system in your body, and every system in your body in turn affects endometriosis. I think it’s important to tie in here just the idea that we learn in school, I remember back in, you know, high school science class, they teach us about the different systems in your body, like your digestive system and your reproductive system and your endocrine system and your immune system.
You have all these different systems in your body. The thing that I think a lot of us leave school without really having a full understanding of is that those systems all work differently. Synergistically together, they all impact each other, they all talk to each other, they’re all controlled by the same brain, which tells everything else what to do.
So, really, you never want to think, I’m going to address just this one system in my body. You want to think of it as a whole, so that you’re, you know, looking at it from all angles. You can attack it from all angles, or support it from all angles, I should say. I don’t really love the word attack, although if that works for you, awesome.
Endometriosis and your immune system
The second thing I want to address, looking from a holistic perspective, is that There is a very large immune system dysfunction component with endometriosis, which comes with chronic inflammation. Now, what exactly is inflammation? That’s something that we hear about a whole lot. It’s definitely a buzzword these days.
What is it? Basically, inflammation is your immune system’s response to something foreign in your body. So think about, like, if you get a cut on your finger, kind of swells up a little bit, it gets a little red and puffy, that’s inflammation. That’s your immune system at work, because there was something foreign that came into your body, like maybe you’re chopping vegetables and you nicked your finger a little bit.
I know that’s something I do every so often. That cut is a foreign object in your body, and so your immune system immediately gets to work to remedy that, to get rid of any bacteria that may have been introduced and things like that. Now, when we’re talking chronic inflammation, what that really shows us is that there’s some sort of continuous underlying something that your body is feeling the need to address constantly.
If you’re experiencing chronic pain, chronic fatigue, those are symptoms that there is some type of chronic inflammation happening in your body. So how do we address this? We have to determine the source of that inflammation. That can come from places like food sensitivities, gut infections, dysregulation in your blood sugar, overload of toxins in your body, a poor diet.
What causes inflammation?
There’s so many different things that we can look at that can be contributing to that inflammation. What really helps us to figure all of that out and put all the puzzle pieces together is functional testing. That’s the thing that I really love to use in my practice. I just did a whole episode on that, episode 3, which I’ll link to in the show notes if you want to hear more about what that entails.
But really getting to the root cause of that inflammation can help to calm down your immune system and also allow your immune system to be able to do its job. You want to think of your immune system kind of like an… army. It only has so many resources at one time, and if it’s chronically having to address certain things, it may not have resources to address other things, and it can just create this big ripple effect in your body, which can lead to the endometriosis continuing to progress because it’s then unchecked by the immune system.
And the third piece I want to touch base on, looking from a holistic perspective, is the hormone piece. We talked about that a little bit earlier about estrogen and how estrogen feeds into endometriosis. Again, hormone imbalance of any kind is never a root cause. It’s a symptom, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not a factor that we can address and work on.
Estrogen dominance and endometriosis
Estrogen dominance is definitely something that’s really common with endometriosis. However, I’m not sure that That term is Well understood on a large scale. I think a lot of people just assume that that estrogen dominance refers to just having too much estrogen in your body, which can happen. But what often happens is that we are experiencing the effects of excess estrogen or estrogen dominance because estrogen is high in relation to progesterone.
It can also mean that your body isn’t metabolizing estrogen well. It’s not able to clear it from your body. Thank you. Because your body continues to produce hormones and then needs to be able to eliminate the hormones when it’s done with it. So that’s where estrogen metabolism and elimination is super important.
So estrogen is really not the bad guy. In fact, we really need estrogen. Estrogen is necessary for so many things. It actually has a lot of benefits in your body as well. It’s just a matter of bringing everything back into balance. How do we do that? The first step. First step, and often only step for a lot of people, is to come back to the fundamentals, just like we were talking about earlier.
Work on the foundations first
Is your digestive system healthy and do you have a balanced microbiome? Is your blood sugar balanced? Have you uncovered all the sources of inflammation that we were talking about? Is there work that we can do to support your hormone metabolism in detoxification in your body? Can we do some work in balancing out your nutrients, upping your nutrient status?
Thank Can we work on your hydration, your stress management, your sleep? These are all factors that are going to impact your hormones. And if we can address all of these things, or really figure out the pieces that need to be addressed in your unique body, then, all of a sudden, your body feels safe to produce these hormones and to be able to communicate well and bring things back into balance.
And all of a sudden, your hormones start to regulate themselves. Sometimes, deeper layers of support are needed along the way. There are certainly things you can use like herbs and supplements to support certain hormones. But, again, that’s not the first step. That’s more like a deeper layer once you’ve already done some of that work on the fundamental stuff for hormones.
So, this is all the type of work that I do in my practice with my one on one clients. We address all of this stuff looking at you as a full human being with an entire body, not just one individual little body part that feels like it needs love right now. So, a little bit different or really a lot different from the way that we approach endometriosis from a functional perspective as opposed to a Western medical perspective.
Balancing Western medicine and a holistic approach for endo
And again, I know I talk a lot about Western medicine and I just want to be super clear that I don’t dislike Western medicine. I think That it has some huge benefits. I mean, there’s so many scientific advancements out there that have saved so many lives. There’s a lot of incredible doctors out there who are doing amazing work and amazing research.
I just think it’s important to know that would, especially when it comes to a chronic condition like endometriosis, that it may not be the end all be all. And that any choice that you make for your own body may come with side effects and long term consequences that it’s important to understand. I really believe that combining the two can be of huge benefit.
Like I said, I went in and had excision surgery myself and have also been doing a lot of functional work and nutrition work over the years. And for me, the combination of those two things has been This perfect symphony and has gotten me to a place where I feel so enormously better than when I started.
And I think that can be true for a lot of people. Of course, each body is unique. That’s one of the major principles that I follow in my own practice. is that everybody is bio individual. We have to look at each body as being unique, and what works for one person may not be exactly what works for somebody else, but it’s good to have the different perspectives and different ways of thinking so that you can look at your body as a whole.
Where should you start if you have endometriosis?
All right, so if you are somebody who is experiencing symptoms of endometriosis, or you know somebody who is, What should you do? I would say step one is absolutely connect with a doctor who specializes in this area, not just any OBGYN or family physician, but I would recommend trying to find a doctor who specializes in endometriosis, just because there’s a lot that goes into this particular condition.
There’s a lot that goes on in your body. And if you can find someone who really understands Stands it and can talk you through the different options and weigh the pros and cons of each. That can be a huge benefit. There is a resource out there called Nancy’s Nook, which I can link to in the show notes.
That can be a wonderful resource to help to find especially, uh, excision surgeon. in your area who may be able to help you out. That’s actually how I found my surgeon when I had my excision surgery was through that network. I will say as you’re finding a doctor, do your best to find someone who you really connect with and trust and who makes you feel listened to and validated.
That can be a huge piece. I can’t tell you how many people I talk to who say they went to a doctor and basically were either told it’s all in their head, or just given a bottle of Advil and sent home, or just not really feeling listened to, and that’s definitely something that I have experienced myself over the years.
You have every right to shop around, find a doctor that’s a good fit for you. You also have every right to fire your doctor if they don’t feel like they’re a good fit for you. It’s your body. You’re your biggest advocate for your own body. And that’s something that I think is important to always remember.
Step two, absolutely consider functional support to get to the root cause of your struggles. Now that absolutely can be step one if that’s something that resonates with you more. Please, by all means, connect with a functional practitioner first, work on getting to the root cause of your symptoms, and then you can always reconsider if you may need support through surgery or other western medical support later on.
I will book the link. In the show notes to book a free call with me. I do a free consultation. I do work with people. Anywhere in the United States virtually, so that can be an option if that’s something that you’re interested in. I will say, don’t make this a last resort like so many of us do. Like, we wait until we’re feeling absolutely awful and can’t get through our day to day lives and then start to look for deeper support.
And then step three is work on building a support team around you so that can absolutely be family and friends, maybe even share this episode with them so they can have a deeper understanding of what you’re going through and what your struggles are and where life may take you. Take you like what pathway might be really beneficial for you and how they can give you that support find that doctor who you like and trust Surround yourself with a variety of holistic professionals who you feel like can really help you it can be you know Support on a functional level like what I do Maybe you work with an acupuncturist a lot of people get a lot of benefits from doing acupuncture or massage or pelvic floor physical therapy.
There’s so many different practitioners out there who are doing some wonderful work and can help you to again, get that full body approach going on so that you can actually feel better. All right, my friend, I hope that this episode was helpful for you. I hope you’re able to gain a little bit deeper insight about what endometriosis is, why some of those myths are out there, and how you can have a deeper understanding of what the truth is behind endometriosis.
If this is something that you feel like somebody else could benefit from, please share this episode with a friend or family member who may find this helpful. And, if you loved this, and you’re getting a lot of benefit from this show, which I really hope that you are, I would love it if you can leave a review.
I do read all of them. It means a lot to me to get these reviews and know that people are listening. Sometimes it can feel very lonely just talking to a microphone. And so I love to actually hear some feedback and hear that people are getting some benefit from these episodes. All right, my friend, you have a wonderful rest of your day, and we will talk soon.
